All time rankings...
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All time rankings...
It can be a bit difficult to rank players or teams in any sport. Arguments as to where any player or team ranks can be subjective. I guess the best a person can do is determine a ranking, and then provide the best argument that they can as to why it's correct, using facts & statistics.
With that being said, how would you rank these three players against one another: Gordie Howe, Mario Lemieux, and Steve Yzerman?
I would say that all three are great players in NHL history, and they are all unique when compared to one another. However, if I have to rank them, this is how I would do it. I would say that both Howe & Lemieux are ahead of Yzerman. I think it is debatable as to how Howe & Lemieux rank against one another though. I might put Lemieux ahead of Howe, but I can't say I have a problem with it being the other way.
With that being said, how would you rank these three players against one another: Gordie Howe, Mario Lemieux, and Steve Yzerman?
I would say that all three are great players in NHL history, and they are all unique when compared to one another. However, if I have to rank them, this is how I would do it. I would say that both Howe & Lemieux are ahead of Yzerman. I think it is debatable as to how Howe & Lemieux rank against one another though. I might put Lemieux ahead of Howe, but I can't say I have a problem with it being the other way.
Posted Dec 5th 2010 9:47PM
I think that's what I would say if it really came down to it. Here's another one for you. I would say that Bobby Orr is the greatest defensemen of all time. Like Lemieux, his playing days were far too limited due to injuries. However, his greatness cannot be denied. So is he the greatest defensemen of all time? I actually had someone tell me that they felt Lidstrom was the best ever (as great as Lidstrom has been, I don't know if I can agree here). If you think Orr is the best, who would you rank higher, Howe or Orr?
Posted Feb 6th 2011 7:05AM
That is a tough one Ivey. I'd have to give Lidstrom the slight edge. His consistency and volume of minutes game in and game out is just unmatched. He's only missed 17 games since 1991. He's won 6 Norris Trophies, a Conn Smythe and 4 Stanley Cups. Orr has to be number two though cause he was just electrifying. So top three looks like this to me:
1. Lidstrom
2. Orr
3. Borque
1. Lidstrom
2. Orr
3. Borque
Posted Feb 7th 2011 2:02PM
Games Played
Lidstrom - 1412
Orr - 657
Goals
Lidstrom - 237
Orr - 270
Assists
Lidstrom - 809
Orr - 645
Points
Lidstrom - 1046
Orr - 915
Plus/Minus
Listrom - +432
Orr - +597 (second best all time)
Stanley Cups
Lidstrom - 4
Orr - 2
Norris Trophies
Lidstrom - 6
Orr - 8
Conn Smythe Awards
Lidstrom - 1
Orr - 2 (first two time winner)
Going by these numbers, I give Orr the edge (even if it's not by much). The only number that Lidstrom has a significant advantage in is games played. This says to me that Lidstrom was the more durable player in the long run. However, even if an athlete has legendary durability, does that mean more than actual talent or statistics? Also, if anything this number hurts Lidstrom IMO. Lidstrom played more than double the games, but both players have very comparable numbers. This is a very similar situation to Mario Lemieux vs other NHL greats (Hull, Yzerman, & Messier to name a few). Lemiuex has just as good of numbers than some other NHL greats, but he played far less games than those other players. In my opinion, this gives Mario the edge against those other greats, and I feel the same way about Orr.
Some numbers may be better for Lidstrom for reasons that don't necessarily help his argument. He has more assists & Stanley Cups than Orr, but he also played on better teams than Orr did. Though, this fact could have hurt Lidstrom as well. He could have possibly won more Conn Smythe awards if he hadn't have played on such loaded teams.
In the end, all of the numbers are close (I am not going to give a lot of credit to Lidstrom for his longer career), but there is one fact about the two that puts Orr on top for me. Orr was not only a great defenseman, but he changed the way that defensemen played the game. As great as Lidstrom has been, he's done nothing to change the way the game is played. This fact alone says more about Orr than it does Lidstrom. So to me, Lidstrom is a great defenseman, while Orr is THE defenseman.
On a side note. There may be strong arguments for Bourque & Coffey over Lidstrom. I would have to look into those other players a little more to be sure about what I think though.
Lidstrom - 1412
Orr - 657
Goals
Lidstrom - 237
Orr - 270
Assists
Lidstrom - 809
Orr - 645
Points
Lidstrom - 1046
Orr - 915
Plus/Minus
Listrom - +432
Orr - +597 (second best all time)
Stanley Cups
Lidstrom - 4
Orr - 2
Norris Trophies
Lidstrom - 6
Orr - 8
Conn Smythe Awards
Lidstrom - 1
Orr - 2 (first two time winner)
Going by these numbers, I give Orr the edge (even if it's not by much). The only number that Lidstrom has a significant advantage in is games played. This says to me that Lidstrom was the more durable player in the long run. However, even if an athlete has legendary durability, does that mean more than actual talent or statistics? Also, if anything this number hurts Lidstrom IMO. Lidstrom played more than double the games, but both players have very comparable numbers. This is a very similar situation to Mario Lemieux vs other NHL greats (Hull, Yzerman, & Messier to name a few). Lemiuex has just as good of numbers than some other NHL greats, but he played far less games than those other players. In my opinion, this gives Mario the edge against those other greats, and I feel the same way about Orr.
Some numbers may be better for Lidstrom for reasons that don't necessarily help his argument. He has more assists & Stanley Cups than Orr, but he also played on better teams than Orr did. Though, this fact could have hurt Lidstrom as well. He could have possibly won more Conn Smythe awards if he hadn't have played on such loaded teams.
In the end, all of the numbers are close (I am not going to give a lot of credit to Lidstrom for his longer career), but there is one fact about the two that puts Orr on top for me. Orr was not only a great defenseman, but he changed the way that defensemen played the game. As great as Lidstrom has been, he's done nothing to change the way the game is played. This fact alone says more about Orr than it does Lidstrom. So to me, Lidstrom is a great defenseman, while Orr is THE defenseman.
On a side note. There may be strong arguments for Bourque & Coffey over Lidstrom. I would have to look into those other players a little more to be sure about what I think though.
Posted Feb 8th 2011 8:32PM
I agree with Ivey, Orr is the best defenseman ever... And pretty damn close to the best player of all-time. But I don't tyhink you should be so quick to dismiss Lidstroms durability, that kind of consistency can really help the cohesiveness of your team. Still Orr is number 1
Posted Feb 9th 2011 2:30PM
Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to completely disregard Lidstrom's durability. It is impressive when any player can go so many games in any sport. I think the fact that guys like Gordie Howe & Randy Couture can go for as long as they have/did, while still competing at a high level, is extremely impressive. My point was that, while it is impressive that Lidstrom has played so many games, it shouldn't be held against another player because he couldn't. Also, I don't think that durability can be seen in the same regard as actual talent. One player may be able to play every game of an 82 game season for ten years, while another plays only half the games, but the player that plays less games might score three times the goals that the other does. Who do you think the better player is? The guy that can play more games or the guy that scores more goals? That's all I was saying about that. Didn't mean to take anything away from Lidstrom by what I said.
Posted Feb 10th 2011 4:31PM
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